From Code to Commerce: How Antoinette Is Shaping the Future of E-Commerce Tech

Speaker: 00:00:00

Don't be afraid to set your own standard and keep in mind that the most important judge of

success for what you're doing is yourself.

2

: 00:00:08

You define what success looks like for yourself.

3

: 00:00:12

You define the level of performance that would say, okay, this is good.

4

: 00:00:16

This is good for me and it's good because I say it's good because it meets and exceeds my

own expectations.

5

: 00:00:22

So going back, I wish I had learned that a lot, a lot sooner.

6

: 00:00:31

Welcome to the Las Vegas IT podcast.

7

: 00:00:34

My name is Shatoya and today I have the pleasure to be speaking to Antonette, who is a

e-commerce senior application developer manager.

8

: 00:00:45

Hey Antonette, how are you doing today?

9

: 00:00:47

I'm doing great.

10

: 00:00:48

How are you?

11

: 00:00:49

I'm doing absolutely amazing.

12

: 00:00:51

I'm super excited to get to know you a little bit better today.

13

: 00:00:54

Can you just tell us a little bit about your journey into technology?

14

: 00:00:59

Sure.

15

: 00:01:01

I started out as a secondary language arts teacher.

16

: 00:01:06

This is like in my early twenties.

17

: 00:01:08

So like teaching high school English basically.

18

: 00:01:11

And I really liked it.

19

: 00:01:12

But, the place where I was working, I was working as a temp and they had that particular

school and like let go of all of their temps.

20

: 00:01:20

So I was looking for something else and I kind of just found a job at a company that did

e-commerce.

21

: 00:01:26

That's all they did.

22

: 00:01:28

They sell sporting goods online.

23

: 00:01:30

And so I started at that company just helping them list their products online.

24

: 00:01:35

And then I worked with that company for several years and they offered a tuition

reimbursement program.

25

: 00:01:39

And they said, is there anything else you would like to learn about?

26

: 00:01:41

And I kind of just picked, I obviously I had like a bachelor's degree in English and

history.

27

: 00:01:46

So I just did computer science because it seemed interesting and that became my career.

28

: 00:01:53

Got it.

29

: 00:01:54

And so as, so I guess that's what kind of inspired you to do the.

30

: 00:01:59

application development is with the company that you're currently employed?

31

: 00:02:03

Yes, I am currently employed, but that was with the long, I've been in e-commerce for a

long time, like over 20 years.

32

: 00:02:09

So that was over 20 years ago.

33

: 00:02:11

you know, e-commerce has developed a lot in the last couple of decades.

34

: 00:02:15

So when I first started, it was like a new thing and you know, a lot of companies were

coming into it.

35

: 00:02:21

You were happy to build your own site because there weren't necessarily a whole lot.

36

: 00:02:24

Like now if you want to open an e-commerce site,

37

: 00:02:26

You might just jump on Shopify or you might go to Wix or there's a thousand different ways

you can do it.

38

: 00:02:31

Maybe you just sell your products directly through Amazon or eBay or another marketplace.

39

: 00:02:35

At that time, those platforms were just beginning and a lot of them didn't even exist back

then.

40

: 00:02:42

So it really was like a very much a hands-on product management, hands-on, you know,

development, getting things listed online, a lot of like hands-on work to do that.

41

: 00:02:52

So lot more involvement.

42

: 00:02:55

in the technical side and getting things set up.

43

: 00:02:58

Got it.

44

: 00:02:59

And all that, that totally makes sense.

45

: 00:03:01

And with that, I'm guessing your job has changed since there's been so much changes.

46

: 00:03:08

Yeah.

47

: 00:03:09

Well, you know, the industry has changed.

48

: 00:03:12

When I first started and you know, this was a long time ago, I also would help organizing

event for third party sellers on Amazon to just improve their business.

49

: 00:03:24

And one of things we would do is host meetings out in Seattle and some of the Amazon team

would come and meet with the sellers.

50

: 00:03:31

And I remember like Jeff Bezos would lead some of the sessions and he said at the time,

like when he first started Amazon, people thought it was a miracle just that they could do

51

: 00:03:42

something on their computer and products would show up on their doorstep.

52

: 00:03:45

So like when e-commerce was first coming out, people were just impressed with anything

because it was the equivalent of having the Sears catalog.

53

: 00:03:54

I mean, I don't know how old everybody is, but I remember the old days back when Sears

used to mail a catalog.

54

: 00:03:59

You could flip through the pages and you would mail in your order with your payment and

then they would mail your stuff back to you.

55

: 00:04:05

But it was a long and slow process.

56

: 00:04:08

And so with e-commerce, that model just shifted to speed things up a little bit.

57

: 00:04:12

So now the industry has changed so much like it's a fully developed industry now where

people have expectations about how things are supposed to work and their existing

58

: 00:04:22

platforms that help people sell.

59

: 00:04:24

existing platforms that help people buy.

60

: 00:04:25

The payment industry has expanded so much from now and then.

61

: 00:04:31

Back then PayPal was still kind of in its early days.

62

: 00:04:34

All of these wallet solutions were in their early days.

63

: 00:04:36

So the industry has really flourished.

64

: 00:04:38

And obviously as the industry has changed, what I do has changed.

65

: 00:04:43

No, and we all became very spoiled and we expect what we expect.

66

: 00:04:48

So that's so awesome.

67

: 00:04:51

And you've also worked in both software engineering and quality engineering.

68

: 00:04:56

How do these two disciplines complement each other in your role?

69

: 00:05:01

I'm sorry, can you say that again?

70

: 00:05:02

In quality engineering?

71

: 00:05:05

Yeah.

72

: 00:05:05

So I think, I mean, you know, I think they go hand in hand.

73

: 00:05:10

It's just like any other industry as it develops.

74

: 00:05:13

You people have a lot, you know, strict your expectation about the final deliverable.

75

: 00:05:19

And so, you know,

76

: 00:05:21

Quality engineering and software engineering has always existed, but I think with the

expansion of, you now a lot of software products, I actually delivered direct to web

77

: 00:05:31

users.

78

: 00:05:32

You know, I don't remember the last time I actually went into a store, like into a Best

Buy and got a box of software off the shelf, got some kind of, you know, distributable

79

: 00:05:42

media like CD or DVD or, you know, whatever, and put it actually inserted in my computer

and installed it.

80

: 00:05:50

So now the concept that we have of like shipping software really means instant, very fast

delivery.

81

: 00:05:58

So with that, then you need instant, very fast quality controls.

82

: 00:06:03

This long testing cycle, this idea that everything has to be perfect before you ship it

because you can't easily retract a shipment or reverse a shipment goes out the window.

83

: 00:06:13

I think tying those two together really it's about staying in sync.

84

: 00:06:19

and being able to move very fast with what you deliver.

85

: 00:06:23

Understood.

86

: 00:06:24

And so thank you for sharing that, Antoinette.

87

: 00:06:27

And then what was your transition like from a senior application developer to a manager?

88

: 00:06:34

What are some of the key skills that helps you step into leadership?

89

: 00:06:38

I would say like it's a gradual thing.

90

: 00:06:41

One of the things that was most important to me as a developer, as you know, kind of just

91

: 00:06:49

grow older and industry goes older is making sure that the people I work with like the

people on my team are satisfied with our working conditions satisfied with our final

92

: 00:07:04

product.

93

: 00:07:05

We take pride in what we do.

94

: 00:07:07

We feel confident and comfortable to move on from one project to the next.

95

: 00:07:12

And in doing that.

96

: 00:07:14

I think we really you know you need someone to support that aspect of it.

97

: 00:07:19

And so the transition from senior to manager is not that big of a leap because a lot of

times as a senior developer, you're already supporting that aspect of the team's

98

: 00:07:29

productivity.

99

: 00:07:30

And so from the standpoint of manager, you're doing that.

100

: 00:07:33

You're just dedicating more time to it.

101

: 00:07:35

And I still write code all the time.

102

: 00:07:37

I still, you know, am very much involved in the technical aspect of things, but also

involved in supporting my teammates and making sure we all feel confident and comfortable

103

: 00:07:46

as we move forward delivering high quality work.

104

: 00:07:49

Got it.

105

: 00:07:50

And I guess how are some ways that you support your colleagues?

106

: 00:07:54

So it just depends.

107

: 00:07:56

I mean, you have to meet people where they are.

108

: 00:07:58

So it's not like there is a way to do it.

109

: 00:08:01

The best way to do it just depends on the person you're working with.

110

: 00:08:04

So, you know, some people on the team, they're looking to grow their skills.

111

: 00:08:08

And in that case, you're supporting them with additional training, with mentorship, with

opportunities to gain certifications and things like that.

112

: 00:08:16

Other people on the team, they've done this for a long time.

113

: 00:08:19

They, you know, they're looking to gain new skills because, you know, we're always

growing, always expanding.

114

: 00:08:24

They don't need a lot of hand holding.

115

: 00:08:26

So in that case, the best way to support them is say, Hey, I'm here if you need anything,

but I trust you.

116

: 00:08:31

got your back.

117

: 00:08:32

I support your decisions because of your, you know, experiencing your capabilities.

118

: 00:08:37

So, you know, just what you need to do, it depends so much on the person that I can't say

is one thing, but I think the biggest thing you can do is have a good rapport with your

119

: 00:08:45

teammates and have an empathetic response for, you know, whatever their needs might be.

120

: 00:08:52

Got it.

121

: 00:08:52

Understood.

122

: 00:08:54

And what are some of the biggest challenges that you faced in your position and then also

scaling large platforms like, you know, where, you know, where you're currently at?

123

: 00:09:03

Like, what are some of the things that you've faced?

124

: 00:09:05

are challenges?

125

: 00:09:06

The biggest challenges I, I mean, so, there's a couple of different directions.

126

: 00:09:11

One is like fast scalability, fast delivery.

127

: 00:09:15

So, you know, we have auto scaling capabilities where, you know, maybe you need to add.

128

: 00:09:20

You when server is failing, you need to quickly swap in something else.

129

: 00:09:25

So a lot of that with cloud technologies has been automated, but you still have like auto

scaling of features.

130

: 00:09:32

You know, a lot of times you maybe you have one feature that was intended to operate at X

number of transactions per day.

131

: 00:09:38

Let's say it's 10,000 transactions a day.

132

: 00:09:41

Well, if now all of sudden you needed to operate at 50 or a hundred, what's the best way

to, you know, rapidly allow that feature or that,

133

: 00:09:50

just to serve an increased number of transactions or an increased number of users.

134

: 00:09:54

And then after that demand goes away to also be able to scale back down.

135

: 00:10:00

So that's one challenge.

136

: 00:10:02

Also, you know, talent is another challenge, you know, finding the right kind of talent

for what we do a lot of times, especially as time goes, e-commons become highly

137

: 00:10:12

specialized.

138

: 00:10:13

And so maybe as we're filling gaps, you're looking for people who can do something that's

highly specialized and highly specific.

139

: 00:10:19

And even if they don't have experience in that one specific thing, looking where people

can take their skills in another area and transfer it into something.

140

: 00:10:28

So there's always something going on.

141

: 00:10:30

You know, we have a large company, there's always going to be something new, something

challenging.

142

: 00:10:33

And I think that's really what I love about working at, you know, a medium or large size

company.

143

: 00:10:40

Got it.

144

: 00:10:40

And how are some of the ways that you guys find these these applicants?

145

: 00:10:45

So fortunately, we have a great talent team.

146

: 00:10:48

We also work

147

: 00:10:49

with really great placement agencies.

148

: 00:10:53

So it really is every possible way we can.

149

: 00:10:58

And then the organization I work for has a great community outreach.

150

: 00:11:02

So they go to a lot of local universities to bring in new talent that's coming in, as well

as go in the traditional places to look for more mature talent.

151

: 00:11:15

Understood.

152

: 00:11:17

And then so what are some of the, know, when it comes to Magneto is a powerful but complex

platform, what are some of the best practices you've implemented for optimizing order

153

: 00:11:27

management across multiple web properties?

154

: 00:11:30

Oh, so, yeah, yes.

155

: 00:11:32

So we use Magento and I've been working with Magento for a really long time and, you know,

it has mature, you know, now we think of Magento as the open source version of the Adobe

156

: 00:11:42

Commerce platform.

157

: 00:11:43

And as a component of their cloud suite of tools.

158

: 00:11:47

So watching that, I guess, grow and expand, what are best practices for that?

159

: 00:11:56

One, if you are looking for a platform that is basically designed for you to customize

Adobe commerce or Magento is a good fit for that.

160

: 00:12:06

So best practices would be make sure that you are following your software engineering

best.

161

: 00:12:12

So these are like going way back to software engineering theory that you might have

learned back in college, you know, and applying those here, you know, not repeating your

162

: 00:12:21

code, keeping things simple as possible, including unit tests with your code and, you

know, on to paying attention to what kind of architecture you're trying to follow, pay

163

: 00:12:32

attention to what frameworks you're using, attention to your dependency injection and

dependency management.

164

: 00:12:38

So, you know, the basics are absolutely there.

165

: 00:12:42

And because with Adobe Commerce and Magento, you can self-host, you can use cloud hosting,

but still, you know, make your own extensions.

166

: 00:12:52

Because of that, you have to, you know, sort of take all the software engineering

principles and apply them here.

167

: 00:13:01

So would say those are best practices.

168

: 00:13:03

The best practices for using Adobe Commerce are the best practices for software

engineering anywhere else.

169

: 00:13:07

It's the same.

170

: 00:13:09

Got it.

171

: 00:13:10

Well, thank you for sharing that.

172

: 00:13:12

When it comes to trends, is there any current trends that you're currently seeing right

now?

173

: 00:13:18

Across e-commerce or specifically for e-commerce engineering?

174

: 00:13:22

E-commerce.

175

: 00:13:23

E-commerce.

176

: 00:13:24

gosh.

177

: 00:13:25

So that is, mean, are there any trends?

178

: 00:13:27

There is every trend.

179

: 00:13:29

And I think the most exciting trend that I'm seeing right now is what I would call like

social e-commerce.

180

: 00:13:36

So, and this is something that has really gone away the last five years is, you know, like

for reaching out to consumers via community.

181

: 00:13:42

So this would be like the ability to buy your products while you're, you know, you're on

an influence page on TikTok and you're able to buy the product that you see on there right

182

: 00:13:50

away, or you're able to interact more directly with brands.

183

: 00:13:55

know, people a lot of times have a relationship with a retailer.

184

: 00:13:57

Maybe you shop at Macy's or maybe you shop at Walmart or Target or whatever.

185

: 00:14:02

But you are accustomed to having that relationship with a retailer.

186

: 00:14:06

Even amazon.com is a retailer.

187

: 00:14:08

And then now what we see is a lot more relationship with brands.

188

: 00:14:12

Consumers are more comfortable going to brands through social media about transactions

that they've had.

189

: 00:14:18

So I think that's a great trend.

190

: 00:14:21

And then the ability of content creators.

191

: 00:14:24

to serve as gateways to e-commerce directly is like a huge trend.

192

: 00:14:30

Content creators building a community around their content and either serving as

influencers, that's one pad, or directly building a shop out of their products is another

193

: 00:14:40

huge trend.

194

: 00:14:41

And then on the technical side, definitely the, what we call headless e-commerce has sort

of become dominant among our major e-commerce competitors.

195

: 00:14:54

You know, the number one thing there is speed and the longevity of the application.

196

: 00:14:59

And as we see more applications breaking out from like this big monolith application into

things that we would consider composable where it's like, okay, maybe you have your

197

: 00:15:10

shopping cart with one service.

198

: 00:15:11

Maybe you have research with another service and it really allows you to completely

customize every aspect of what you would like to deliver the experience you like to

199

: 00:15:19

deliver to your end user, your consumer.

200

: 00:15:21

without having to literally build out every component separately.

201

: 00:15:25

So you can have best in class for every single touch point that you have with your

consumer.

202

: 00:15:33

Understood.

203

: 00:15:34

And then when it comes to like, how do you balance the demands of development, quality

engineering and business needs to ensure projects stay on track?

204

: 00:15:46

So to me, there is no balance.

205

: 00:15:48

The business always comes first.

206

: 00:15:51

And to me, it's just about professionalism.

207

: 00:15:54

You know, it's just like any other service.

208

: 00:15:56

If you go get a haircut, you would assume that when you're getting a haircut, you're

sitting in the chair, the person who's like cutting your hair.

209

: 00:16:03

is a professional.

210

: 00:16:04

So they're supposed to put your needs first.

211

: 00:16:06

It doesn't matter how they would like to see your hairstyle, it's how you would like to

see your hairstyle.

212

: 00:16:11

And you know, I feel like that's the same when you go to buy something in a store, right?

213

: 00:16:15

You're looking for a certain experience and you're engaging with, you know, someone

because you feel like they can meet your needs.

214

: 00:16:21

So to me, business needs have to come first.

215

: 00:16:25

Now, you know, depending on what the business is asking for, you have to set expectations

as to what's realistic.

216

: 00:16:31

You can't have the sun, the moon and the stars with a 24 hour turnaround time.

217

: 00:16:37

So the answer to can we do this is almost always yes.

218

: 00:16:41

Yes, we can.

219

: 00:16:42

The answer to should we do this is a way more complex question.

220

: 00:16:47

So when you're trying to balance, it's balancing what we can do with what we should do

given the available resources, the time, the importance of the business need.

221

: 00:16:59

But I think that as long as the business knows

222

: 00:17:01

that this is a partnership, you have a shared goal with your business users, then you

start out on the same page and you stay on the same page.

223

: 00:17:11

So if the timeline needs to expand, I mean to expand or extend, if they have that

flexibility and you work within what they need.

224

: 00:17:20

Got it.

225

: 00:17:20

And then how do you, I guess, know that flexibility or know what the business truly

actually needs instead of just wants?

226

: 00:17:30

So to me, I want is a need because I just trust that the business users know what will

serve them best.

227

: 00:17:38

The trick is then helping them articulate their needs in a way that the technical team

says, I think we can do this.

228

: 00:17:47

And then sometimes getting down to whether it's a need that can or should be met with

technology versus a need that is more about business process.

229

: 00:17:58

and about how you're using the technology you have.

230

: 00:18:01

And so that just comes from having a great working relationship with your business

partners.

231

: 00:18:09

Got it.

232

: 00:18:10

That makes sense.

233

: 00:18:12

And then when it comes to the strategies, do you guys foster for innovation within your

team?

234

: 00:18:17

In terms of innovation, you know, I feel like as e-commerce has started to mature, know,

innovation is important, but because consumer expectations have grown over time, to be

235

: 00:18:32

more specific, I think the goal really is to meet or exceed your consumer expectations.

236

: 00:18:37

So when we're looking to innovate, it's not just about being new and different.

237

: 00:18:41

It's about how does this serve the consumer better?

238

: 00:18:45

The consumer wants a faster experience.

239

: 00:18:47

If the consumer wants faster service or we providing automation that can provide that

faster service.

240

: 00:18:53

If the consumer wants an easier search experience, like we maybe have people that are

searching for things on the site that aren't surfacing, we're not surfacing the content as

241

: 00:19:02

easily or as fast as they would like.

242

: 00:19:04

then innovation is around how we can build a better experience for the consumer.

243

: 00:19:09

Got it.

244

: 00:19:10

That makes sense.

245

: 00:19:10

And then when it comes, one of the big topics that we've been talking about for months is

AI.

246

: 00:19:15

So how do do AI and automation play a role within your work?

247

: 00:19:22

It's hugely important because a lot of e-comm is repetitive and problems that computers

can solve easily, machines can solve easily with AI or even with automation are things

248

: 00:19:38

that are repetitive.

249

: 00:19:40

So, you know, the process, I if you shop on Amazon or you shop on any other e-com site,

the process to buy the product is usually very repetitive.

250

: 00:19:49

You go to some page that lists a lot of products, you find one that you like by clicking

and then you click on that product.

251

: 00:19:58

You see details about that product.

252

: 00:20:01

And at that point, you either choose to buy the product and add it to your cart, or maybe

you say, this isn't what I thought you back out and you

253

: 00:20:09

repeat that process.

254

: 00:20:11

Once you've added something to cart, you enter your shipping information, your payment

information, and off you go.

255

: 00:20:19

So where automation helps in that is like, let's say I have one product to list or a

thousand or 10,000 or a million products to list.

256

: 00:20:28

The automation comes in and getting those products listed quickly.

257

: 00:20:31

And because that is so repetitive, it can be done with your basic robotic automation that

we don't think of as AI.

258

: 00:20:39

in terms of listing the product.

259

: 00:20:41

Also in terms of consumers, like where are consumers using automation in things like

wallets?

260

: 00:20:46

Maybe you have your Apple Pay or Google Pay or PayPal wallet that you use.

261

: 00:20:51

That's a form of automation.

262

: 00:20:53

And then so where does AI come into that?

263

: 00:20:55

I see AI a lot in search.

264

: 00:20:57

So AI is good at understanding the intent of the user because sometimes how users use

language or behavior to convey intent can vary.

265

: 00:21:07

but the intent is the same.

266

: 00:21:08

So an example of that would be in search.

267

: 00:21:11

Like maybe I'm looking for a blue shirt.

268

: 00:21:14

So I might put in blue shirt or maybe I put in aqua top or maybe I put in, you know, like

sexy Marine blouse or something like that.

269

: 00:21:23

But the intent is the same.

270

: 00:21:25

And when I enhance it with additional content, like I say, sexy Marine blouse, then, you

know, AI can use that to say, you know, by Marine, is it a color?

271

: 00:21:35

Is it for swimming underwater?

272

: 00:21:37

Okay.

273

: 00:21:37

Given the context of where they are, you know, they probably mean marine as a color more

so than like an underwater swimming type thing.

274

: 00:21:47

So, you know, AI is great at helping you interpret the intent and then using linking that

intent as something on the backend where you can serve something useful to the consumer.

275

: 00:21:55

So that works in things like search.

276

: 00:21:57

It also works in things like customer service.

277

: 00:22:00

So, you know, let's say someone says my order didn't arrive.

278

: 00:22:02

I'm super mad.

279

: 00:22:04

AI is great in determining the consumer's intent is to get help about an order that has

been delayed and can automatically very quickly provide responses about that.

280

: 00:22:16

Got it.

281

: 00:22:16

No, AI has made a huge difference.

282

: 00:22:19

Would you say that AI has changed or reshaped kind of, guess, your role within the company

or industry?

283

: 00:22:29

Would you say that your role has changed at all?

284

: 00:22:32

Fundamentally,

285

: 00:22:34

I don't think that AI has changed the role of software engineers, engineering managers.

286

: 00:22:41

Our goal has always been to build useful things for users.

287

: 00:22:48

So regardless of what kind of engineering you're in, it could be mechanical, electrical,

software engineering.

288

: 00:22:55

The goal is to build something wonderful and useful for someone to use in a productive

way.

289

: 00:23:02

You know, maybe it just makes them happier.

290

: 00:23:03

You know, maybe it solves a real problem in their life, but that is the goal.

291

: 00:23:08

I don't think the AI will change that goal.

292

: 00:23:12

It may make us more productive in a sense of like a lot of the manual repetitive work in

software engineering has been solved with AI.

293

: 00:23:22

And, know, it's, right now the technology isn't that great.

294

: 00:23:26

Like, and always tell if someone on the engineering team is, you know, using AI.

295

: 00:23:31

to either like write their test cases or, know, or write something that can always tell.

296

: 00:23:35

But that, you know, as, you know, more people use it, that part will improve.

297

: 00:23:41

But, you know, so, so the repetitive work of like writing the same code or, you know, like

maybe five years ago, you built something similar.

298

: 00:23:48

AI will help us with that.

299

: 00:23:49

But as far as figuring out what people need and making something that fits their needs

that they like to use, you know, I think engineers will be doing that forever.

300

: 00:24:00

Got to use, we still need a human.

301

: 00:24:02

You still need, I mean, you need someone who can understand you, one person to another.

302

: 00:24:08

And especially with innovative things where this is new, this hasn't been done before.

303

: 00:24:13

You you still need a person to think new thoughts.

304

: 00:24:16

You know, right now what we have with AI is trained on things that have already been done

before.

305

: 00:24:21

So it's not thinking new thoughts.

306

: 00:24:22

It's not making new and original things.

307

: 00:24:25

And where the state of technology is right now, you still need humans to do that.

308

: 00:24:30

So with AI, we free up people's time to spend more time on creativity and being productive

around something new that meets an innovative need.

309

: 00:24:40

Got it.

310

: 00:24:41

Thank you for sharing that, Antoinette.

311

: 00:24:43

AI has been a huge topic within our podcast.

312

: 00:24:47

Another huge topic has been security.

313

: 00:24:50

Security is a big concern in online retail.

314

: 00:24:54

What are some of the current biggest threats today and how are you solving them?

315

: 00:25:00

Okay, sure.

316

: 00:25:01

So we always have our OWASP top 10, you know, so that's like your basically like your

online software engineering top 10 security threats.

317

: 00:25:08

That list has been out for several years.

318

: 00:25:10

It hasn't changed.

319

: 00:25:12

But I think what we are starting to see is one more social engineering and more automated

social engineering.

320

: 00:25:19

So, you know, we even see the shift in what we thought was sort of like the goal standard

of authentication, which is two factor or multi factor authentication.

321

: 00:25:29

And you see, okay, well, you send somebody a text message, they get their phone, they came

their text message.

322

: 00:25:35

Now we see companies even starting to shift away from that.

323

: 00:25:38

You know, as, being less secure than maybe having the phone scan a QR code.

324

: 00:25:43

So, you know, that's one of the most common things, which is as we take a couple of steps

forward on the security or the authentication side.

325

: 00:25:51

The, you know, the bad guys, the criminals on the other side are also taking their step

forward.

326

: 00:25:56

And how to defeat that or how to get around it.

327

: 00:25:59

And while we may do everything we can from technology standpoint, there is always the

human user who can, you know, like if they are unaware, can, you know, kind of circumvent

328

: 00:26:10

things.

329

: 00:26:10

So I think the biggest thing that we can do, you know, as an industry is educate people

who may have less technical awareness on how these tools are used to protect them, how

330

: 00:26:24

helpful they can be, why these things are in place.

331

: 00:26:28

And the level of protection and privacy guarantees that they provide.

332

: 00:26:32

Because the more consumers adopt these, the more consumers are compliant with what the

requirements are and consistently being suspicious with things that look odd and not

333

: 00:26:42

engaging with those things.

334

: 00:26:43

The sort of resisting the harder, you know, the criminals will have to work to sort of

take over someone's account or to infiltrate something they're not supposed to.

335

: 00:26:57

got it and what are some ways that we are educating the consumers that you guys have found

that works?

336

: 00:27:03

Yeah, so I think a lot of times what works is receiving information from a trusted source.

337

: 00:27:12

And this I would love if we could do a better job on the technical side.

338

: 00:27:16

know, social media has done a great job of putting information out there and we can't

always guarantee the quality or the accuracy of that information.

339

: 00:27:24

But let's use that to also educate people about safety and security in a way that is

easily understandable and not fear-mongering.

340

: 00:27:34

We don't want to say, my God, someone's constantly trying to break into your phone or

someone's going to hack all your devices and make your house catch fire.

341

: 00:27:42

That's not the goal.

342

: 00:27:43

But the goal would be to say, here are the easy tools that you can use day in, day out to

protect your information, to protect your payment information from

343

: 00:27:53

unauthorized use and get that in their hands.

344

: 00:27:57

And to me, social media is a great tool for providing that.

345

: 00:28:01

And then other trusted sources as well.

346

: 00:28:03

And I see a lot of technical articles on it.

347

: 00:28:06

Notice if you're into technology, you have that information.

348

: 00:28:09

But what I think would be great is to see sort of broader expansion of putting this

information into consumers' hands.

349

: 00:28:17

So just like people are, when you leave your house, you automatically think, I'm going to

lock my door.

350

: 00:28:23

And when you start your car and you get out of the car, a lot of times it's a no brainer.

351

: 00:28:27

Take the key with you, lock the door.

352

: 00:28:30

You know, I would love the point where we get to, you know, on the technical side where

security is like almost a passing thought, right?

353

: 00:28:39

Like people do it automatically every single time.

354

: 00:28:42

And the tools are as easy to use as it is a key to lock your door.

355

: 00:28:46

Got it.

356

: 00:28:46

Thank you, Annette.

357

: 00:28:48

What advice would you give to someone who's looking, you know,

358

: 00:28:52

Looking to break into the e-commerce software engineering, what advice would you give

them?

359

: 00:28:58

It's an easy field to get into because, you know, feel like the training that you need is

readily available.

360

: 00:29:09

So from the sense of like, how do I pick up the skills that I need?

361

: 00:29:13

I mean, you can get like free classes on Udemy.

362

: 00:29:16

You know, they have so much available with Khan Academy and even on YouTube about

363

: 00:29:21

you understanding software engineering basics.

364

: 00:29:23

Depending on who you work for or who you want to work for, you know, the lead code

training could be helpful, you know, if you want to work for an organization that does

365

: 00:29:33

that, that values that kind of training.

366

: 00:29:37

There's also, you know, once you have a little bit more skill, check out what kind of

open, open source groups or teams may be looking for someone to go in and fix a simple

367

: 00:29:48

problem with a pull request.

368

: 00:29:50

So, you know, I say, you might go the more technical route focusing on your code skills,

or the more contributed community route, which is looking to get involved with open source

369

: 00:30:00

community and show her skills that way.

370

: 00:30:02

But ultimately, it's about understanding what you want to do.

371

: 00:30:07

Understood.

372

: 00:30:08

so when it comes to, you know, technology is ever changing.

373

: 00:30:12

It's always changing.

374

: 00:30:13

So how do you stay up to the latest technology?

375

: 00:30:17

Read and do.

376

: 00:30:18

So like, you know, I'm constantly like every day when I get up, first thing I do is I read

the news, especially, you know, technical news.

377

: 00:30:25

I look at other products that I admire, other companies that are doing things with

technology that I think are great and amazing.

378

: 00:30:33

And then I try to do it.

379

: 00:30:35

And, you know, our team tries to do it.

380

: 00:30:38

And, you know, so that's really it.

381

: 00:30:40

Just, you know, try to learn and then what should feel like you've learned a little bit.

382

: 00:30:44

Just do it.

383

: 00:30:45

Got it.

384

: 00:30:46

And how do you not get overwhelmed with that?

385

: 00:30:49

You know, in terms of like pulling in new things.

386

: 00:30:53

Yeah, exactly.

387

: 00:30:55

So I really think, you know, my ultimate focus is on building something that is useful to

people and that people delight in using.

388

: 00:31:03

So I'm not interested in learning new skills just for the sake of doing something new.

389

: 00:31:07

I don't want to take the same thing that works successfully and has worked successfully

for years and just say, there's a new way to do it.

390

: 00:31:15

Just do it the new way.

391

: 00:31:16

What I'm looking for is to solve problems that are out there that don't have a solution.

392

: 00:31:22

So you learn about it, you try to do it, and you think, can I use this to solve a problem

for someone?

393

: 00:31:28

If not, then it was just a fun exercise you over the weekend.

394

: 00:31:31

And if you can, you bring that to your potential business partner or your user and say,

hey, I've got an idea.

395

: 00:31:39

You know, show it me.

396

: 00:31:40

What do you think of this?

397

: 00:31:41

And then you see where it goes.

398

: 00:31:44

Understood.

399

: 00:31:45

Thank you for sharing it so much.

400

: 00:31:48

What would you say is your most rewarding part of your career so far?

401

: 00:31:52

you have about 20 years of experience.

402

: 00:31:54

Like what's been the most rewarding?

403

: 00:31:56

Definitely working with awesome people.

404

: 00:31:57

I love technology and I am so fortunate that every day I get to spend all day talking to

other people who love technology just as much as I do.

405

: 00:32:07

Got it.

406

: 00:32:07

Oh, people are awesome.

407

: 00:32:11

If you could go back in time and give yourself one piece of career advice, what would it

be?

408

: 00:32:18

gosh, so many things, but like one piece of career advice.

409

: 00:32:21

Number one, buy more Amazon stock.

410

: 00:32:27

Number two would be, you know, don't let someone else's expectations sort of supplant my

own expectations for myself.

411

: 00:32:39

I feel like, you for myself and for other people, especially women in the industry, a lot

of times we're looking for someone else to define what should be expected of us.

412

: 00:32:48

Even though you're perfectly capable, you know, if you're young, you're new in the

industry or, you know, maybe you're sort of underrepresented in the industry and you're

413

: 00:32:56

like, well, I'm not here to set standards.

414

: 00:32:57

I'm here to meet and exceed standards.

415

: 00:33:00

Don't be afraid to set your own standard.

416

: 00:33:02

And, you know, keep in mind that the most important judge of success for what you're doing

is yourself.

417

: 00:33:08

You define what success looks like for yourself.

418

: 00:33:12

You define the level of performance that would say, okay, this is good.

419

: 00:33:16

This is good for me and it's good because I say it's good because it meets and exceeds my

own expectations.

420

: 00:33:22

So going back, I wish I had learned that a lot, a lot sooner.

421

: 00:33:29

Got it.

422

: 00:33:29

No, and I just love that.

423

: 00:33:30

Being a woman of myself as myself and, know, being in the tech industry as well.

424

: 00:33:35

I totally understand that.

425

: 00:33:37

Antoinette today has been a pleasure to, you know, get to know you a little bit better.

426

: 00:33:40

But if people are looking to connect with you, where's the best place to do that?

427

: 00:33:44

Well, find me on LinkedIn.

428

: 00:33:46

So, you know, I try to check in there like a couple of times a week.

429

: 00:33:49

So definitely find me on LinkedIn.

430

: 00:33:51

I'm Antoinette Wapatera and I don't turn down connection requests.

431

: 00:33:57

So.

432

: 00:33:57

Give them a shout out, say hi.

433

: 00:34:00

And that's where we connected.

434

: 00:34:01

So that's so awesome.

435

: 00:34:02

And I'll be sure to put that link in the description.

436

: 00:34:04

But as I said, Antoinette, today was a pleasure and I'm excited and just, yes.

437

: 00:34:09

Thank you so much.

438

: 00:34:10

Thank you so much.

439

: 00:34:11

It was my pleasure.